Claiming student success as your own « Political Science Rumors

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OP: 8 Goods vs 8 No Goods
Thread: 34 Goods vs 26 No Goods

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Claiming student success as your own

Elinor

Is immoral, and deceptive.

You're a deadwood at a LAC. You have a brilliant first-gen student who reads outside the course material, contacts profs at top schools whose work she read. And she gets published. Or accepted to a top program for grad school.

So many of you - I've seen it - will put on your tenure and promotion record that "because of my amazing class and advising, Maria Sanchez got admitted to Harvard and has a top-3 pub."

No, she did that. You may have pointed her in the right direction with your dated advice, good for you, but that's her accomplishment.

5 months ago # QUOTE 8 YEA 8 NAY !
Angele

Causal inference is tough with n=1

5 months ago # QUOTE 3 YEA 3 NAY !
Wendell

Really? People do that? I’d like to think I’ve played a role in some of my students going on to bigger and better things, but I’d never even consider doing something like that. Wow.

5 months ago # QUOTE 2 YEA 1 NAY !
Rae

Is immoral, and deceptive.
You're a deadwood at a LAC. You have a brilliant first-gen student who reads outside the course material, contacts profs at top schools whose work she read. And she gets published. Or accepted to a top program for grad school.
So many of you - I've seen it - will put on your tenure and promotion record that "because of my amazing class and advising, Maria Sanchez got admitted to Harvard and has a top-3 pub."
No, she did that. You may have pointed her in the right direction with your dated advice, good for you, but that's her accomplishment.

Yea, mentoring awards and accolades are rubbish

5 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !
Cayley

The award should read:

"Despite her deadwood advisor who hasn't published a peer-reviewed article in ten years, Maria Sanchez managed to publish an award winning article. White guy appropriates minority diamond in the rough talent, yet again."

5 months ago # QUOTE 2 YEA 2 NAY !
Roseanne

Fine, if we don’t get credit, or our help didn’t matter at all, then why advise?

5 months ago # QUOTE 5 YEA 1 NAY !
Elliott

Is immoral, and deceptive.
Maria Sanchez got admitted to Harvard and has a top-3 pub.

That is small change: my student Marta Sanchez wrote the world-hit "Desesperada", which was undoubtedly inspired in my teaching.

5 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !
Giffard

Op, how would u have seen this anywhere except ur own broke azz school

5 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !
Godiva

Advising us a big part of the job at a LAC. Of course you report it. Why wouldn’t you?

5 months ago # QUOTE 2 YEA 2 NAY !
Elinor

Advising us a big part of the job at a LAC. Of course you report it. Why wouldn’t you?

Because it's their accomplishment, not yours.

And the answers to this thread make me realize something.

What LAC's do: unaccomplished profs manipulating smart kids to take credit off their talents and achievements. Instead of reporting that they personally did something by their own effort, they report that someone else did something, as though this were their own accomplishment.

When you get good at this, you become the most valued LAC employee - the admin: people who do not teach or research manipulating those who do to take credit off their talents and achievements.

The more parasitical you become, the higher your pay in proportion to those who produce themselves.

The whole enterprise is parasitical.

4 months ago # QUOTE 3 YEA 4 NAY !
Hades

Advising us a big part of the job at a LAC. Of course you report it. Why wouldn’t you?

Because it's their accomplishment, not yours.
And the answers to this thread make me realize something.
What LAC's do: unaccomplished profs manipulating smart kids to take credit off their talents and achievements. Instead of reporting that they personally did something by their own effort, they report that someone else did something, as though this were their own accomplishment.
When you get good at this, you become the most valued LAC employee - the admin: people who do not teach or research manipulating those who do to take credit off their talents and achievements.
The more parasitical you become, the higher your pay in proportion to those who produce themselves.
The whole enterprise is parasitical.

I've actually never seen somebody take credit for a student's accomplishments at a LAC. I'm sure it happens, but I went to a LAC with supportive and kind professors and now work at a LAC where the flaws of faculty member in the department don't include excessive credit-seeking. If anything, most of the professors I've met downplay their role. Over time, people start to infer somebody is a good advisor due to the results produced (good theses, graduate admissions, etc.).

4 months ago # QUOTE 5 YEA 1 NAY !
Colette

Ignore OP, this never happens. Next?

4 months ago # QUOTE 2 YEA 2 NAY !
Godiva

Advising us a big part of the job at a LAC. Of course you report it. Why wouldn’t you?

Because it's their accomplishment, not yours.
And the answers to this thread make me realize something.
What LAC's do: unaccomplished profs manipulating smart kids to take credit off their talents and achievements. Instead of reporting that they personally did something by their own effort, they report that someone else did something, as though this were their own accomplishment.
When you get good at this, you become the most valued LAC employee - the admin: people who do not teach or research manipulating those who do to take credit off their talents and achievements.
The more parasitical you become, the higher your pay in proportion to those who produce themselves.
The whole enterprise is parasitical.

You don’t really seem to understand the advising and mentoring process. If my students succeed, I report it as an example of successful mentoring. That doesn’t mean I’m taking credit for their work; only a ph00l would think so.

4 months ago # QUOTE 1 YEA 2 NAY !
Pearle

Just list the students you advised and their placement. No need to say "because of my advising they succeeded."

4 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !
Montague

Truly amusing set of responses to this thread.

One set of responses says no, this never happens, no one ever does this.

Another set of responses says, yes, we take credit for our student's accomplishments all the time, this is what advising and teaching is, how dare you question this.

For the latter - has it ever occurred to you that sometimes you just have a student who is gifted that does not need you, and while she may be in your class and listening to your words, humoring you and being respectful - she does everything well on her own? Like she could have read the books in the library and watched youtube videos and performed at the same level in her writing, participation, or whatever else you do in your classes?

LAC people go on about how their teaching is transformational and they turn people who know nothing into experts in their fields, even though they haven't been research active in years and have no connection to what is mainstream in their fields. "We went to grad school too," they exclaim.

Where are the studies and the research that measures what students knew before, and what they know after based oh your teaching, to prove your claims about what you have done? You may just have some smart kids self-selecting into the honors classes you happen to be teaching.

4 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 1 NAY !
Montague

^ If it were the way you describe it, that would not be a problem.

- Not all LAC profs are research active (Swarthmore is not a LAC, Alvernia is). It's rare when a "14th in the West Best Value School" has research active faculty outside the natural sciences.

- Some LAC profs speak incessantly in every meeting and group e-mail (cc: everyone) about how much they do for the students, even though said students don't even remember taking that prof's class when you ask them, or what they learned in it.

- It's not about innocuously listing advisees, obviously, which wouldn't warrant a post.

4 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !
Montague

Strange, the post I replied to was deleted again by over active mod.

4 months ago # QUOTE 2 YEA 0 NAY !
Carter

^ If it were the way you describe it, that would not be a problem.
- Not all LAC profs are research active (Swarthmore is not a LAC, Alvernia is). It's rare when a "14th in the West Best Value School" has research active faculty outside the natural sciences.
- Some LAC profs speak incessantly in every meeting and group e-mail (cc: everyone) about how much they do for the students, even though said students don't even remember taking that prof's class when you ask them, or what they learned in it.
- It's not about innocuously listing advisees, obviously, which wouldn't warrant a post.

Strange that it was deleted. Admittedly, my experience has been exclusively at SLACs. I don't know all that much about what goes on at LACs that are not very selective, but I can sympathize with their plight. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get research done while teaching a 4-4 at a liberal arts college where the students are generally less prepared for college. If they're proud of their students' accomplishments and gloating a little about helping them, I kind of get it. Helping the diamond in the rough every now and then is probably what keeps them going. Even if the student did all of the work, it's nice to think that you exposed them to a research topic or literature that inspired them to write a great paper.

4 months ago # QUOTE 1 YEA 0 NAY !
Godiva

Just list the students you advised and their placement. No need to say "because of my advising they succeeded."

No one ever says that. You’re not in the biz.

4 months ago # QUOTE 0 YEA 0 NAY !

Claiming student success as your own

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