If you were a mid-career academic who had the chance to leave and go to the private sector, would you do it? Salary around 250k.
Mid-career - leave academia
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Similar issue here, smaller stakes. 70k salary in academia vs. likely 120k salary outside. Position now is pretty solid, but the school is a leaderless wreck and admin is a turnover-plagued dumpster fire.
School might not exist in the long term and in the short term is being taken over by student services (0 TT hires this year, all FTE hires are for Student Services).
Would be giving up a solid pension + likely tenure though. Thoughts from anyone who's done similar?
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Similar issue here, smaller stakes. 70k salary in academia vs. likely 120k salary outside. Position now is pretty solid, but the school is a leaderless wreck and admin is a turnover-plagued dumpster fire.
School might not exist in the long term and in the short term is being taken over by student services (0 TT hires this year, all FTE hires are for Student Services).
Would be giving up a solid pension + likely tenure though. Thoughts from anyone who's done similar?Get tenure at your current school. Apply for academic positions at other schools. You get employment security post-tenure, pension benefits, summers off. 120k may sound attractive now, but in the private sector you can be fired anytime and you will work your rear off for that money with only 28 days of annual leave.
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Get tenure at your current school. Apply for academic positions at other schools. You get employment security post-tenure, pension benefits, summers off. 120k may sound attractive now, but in the private sector you can be fired anytime and you will work your rear off for that money with only 28 days of annual leave.
28 paid days of annual leave is borderline unheard of in the US private sector.
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Get tenure at your current school. Apply for academic positions at other schools. You get employment security post-tenure, pension benefits, summers off. 120k may sound attractive now, but in the private sector you can be fired anytime and you will work your rear off for that money with only 28 days of annual leave.
28 paid days of annual leave is borderline unheard of in the US private sector.
This is completely untrue. I quit the TT track after two years and have 40 days PTO annually and unused gets carried over to the next year. And, yes, I can theoretically get fired any time, but most companies bend over backwards to keep anyone remotely talented because jobs are plentiful and there are always other offers. This is opposed to academia, where you're likely stuck at your uni for life. I make 150k, remote job, and work ~25 hours a week, take weeks at a time where nobody bothers me and I just read, told my boss I want 10 hours a week billed as "research and development" where I basically just keep up with methods I need, etc. Know plenty of people with similar jobs, often much better paid. Yes, there are definitely downsides, but academia really oversells itself. Certainly there are miserable people who work 60 hours a week doing mind-numbing work, but do you really think the entire upper middle class would gladly cut their salaries by 50-75% to take a randomly selected uni job because they get summers "off"?
Now to OP's point, I wouldn't do it if the salary isn't much different unless you really want a change of scenery. For me the big deal was being able to live wherever I wanted.
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Get tenure at your current school. Apply for academic positions at other schools. You get employment security post-tenure, pension benefits, summers off. 120k may sound attractive now, but in the private sector you can be fired anytime and you will work your rear off for that money with only 28 days of annual leave.
28 paid days of annual leave is borderline unheard of in the US private sector.This is completely untrue. I quit the TT track after two years and have 40 days PTO annually and unused gets carried over to the next year. And, yes, I can theoretically get fired any time, but most companies bend over backwards to keep anyone remotely talented because jobs are plentiful and there are always other offers. This is opposed to academia, where you're likely stuck at your uni for life. I make 150k, remote job, and work ~25 hours a week, take weeks at a time where nobody bothers me and I just read, told my boss I want 10 hours a week billed as "research and development" where I basically just keep up with methods I need, etc. Know plenty of people with similar jobs, often much better paid. Yes, there are definitely downsides, but academia really oversells itself. Certainly there are miserable people who work 60 hours a week doing mind-numbing work, but do you really think the entire upper middle class would gladly cut their salaries by 50-75% to take a randomly selected uni job because they get summers "off"?
Now to OP's point, I wouldn't do it if the salary isn't much different unless you really want a change of scenery. For me the big deal was being able to live wherever I wanted.Just curious, are you an R jockey? I can do some stuff in R and want to work in industry.
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Just curious, are you an R jockey? I can do some stuff in R and want to work in industry.
I work mostly in Python now but I started as an R guy. Python's more in demand and I would learn it (pretty straightforward if you're doing data manipulation, modeling, etc.) but R is usually enough to get your foot in the door to a good position. Know a lot of industry people who almost exclusive use R (usually guys from stats backgrounds)
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Just curious, are you an R jockey? I can do some stuff in R and want to work in industry.
I work mostly in Python now but I started as an R guy. Python's more in demand and I would learn it (pretty straightforward if you're doing data manipulation, modeling, etc.) but R is usually enough to get your foot in the door to a good position. Know a lot of industry people who almost exclusive use R (usually guys from stats backgrounds)
Thanks. I've been doing GIS stuff in Python but haven't moved my whole work flow yet. I can probably talk some good turkey at this point, though
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Curious. What kind of consulting do polisci bros do? What's your research area?
OP here. Not a big change from current salary once consulting is included. (Consulting was the door opener.)
Thanks for the ideas all. Tough one.
Would you have a guaranteed few years at that salary? If so, then yes. -
Thanks. I've been doing GIS stuff in Python but haven't moved my whole work flow yet. I can probably talk some good turkey at this point, though
Np. Learning the language is usually enough since in my experience PhDs are rarely grilled with full on coding interviews or anything like that (unless you're talking Amazon).
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Get tenure at your current school. Apply for academic positions at other schools. You get employment security post-tenure, pension benefits, summers off. 120k may sound attractive now, but in the private sector you can be fired anytime and you will work your rear off for that money with only 28 days of annual leave.
28 paid days of annual leave is borderline unheard of in the US private sector.This is completely untrue. I quit the TT track after two years and have 40 days PTO annually and unused gets carried over to the next year. And, yes, I can theoretically get fired any time, but most companies bend over backwards to keep anyone remotely talented because jobs are plentiful and there are always other offers. This is opposed to academia, where you're likely stuck at your uni for life. I make 150k, remote job, and work ~25 hours a week, take weeks at a time where nobody bothers me and I just read, told my boss I want 10 hours a week billed as "research and development" where I basically just keep up with methods I need, etc. Know plenty of people with similar jobs, often much better paid. Yes, there are definitely downsides, but academia really oversells itself. Certainly there are miserable people who work 60 hours a week doing mind-numbing work, but do you really think the entire upper middle class would gladly cut their salaries by 50-75% to take a randomly selected uni job because they get summers "off"?
Now to OP's point, I wouldn't do it if the salary isn't much different unless you really want a change of scenery. For me the big deal was being able to live wherever I wanted.Like everything, there's a lot of variation within each industry. You've identified some wrt universities, but of course there are many different jobs of differing qualities outside academia as well.
Since we're all trafficking in anecdotes, let me do me. I'm not a star. Solid, well respected, but far from being one of those people who seem to crank an AJPS every year. I'm about as mid career as mid career goes. I've had over half a dozen offers over the years. As a result I got several counters or moved for better salary. Let's just say I'm living nicely in a nice area.
Otoh, my best friend from grad school went into the government and later the private sector. Got a decent job in the mid 00s but then lost it during the great recession. He's been able to rebuild a career since but he's been let go a couple more times (he's also good at what he does though my guess is that, like me, he's no star and enjoys life sometimes a little too much).
I have almost no stress. Sure my entire state system could collapse but that's not gonna happen. I am literally one of those guys who spends summers in Tuscany (ok, not literally because I don't want to give myself away, but you get the picture).
Does he make more? Yes. Is it worth it? From my perspective, no. From his perspective? It depends when you ask, whether he has a deadline, who's the new VP, etc. Me? I just do what I do, get my negotiated raises, come into work 2-3 days a week, complain about parking or how "kids today don't read the syllabus." I'm at a stage where I'll apply for jobs only when asked (like last time I got an outside offer). I wouldn't change anything.
Is my experience representative? Probably not, of course.. But I'm not sure my interlocutor's is as well. Is my friend's representative? Probably more so. Who knows. Again, lots of variation. And we're all suffering from survivor bias (to the extent we survived). Those who left academia and don't regret will, by definition, claim that they did the right thing. Ditto those who stayed and made it work.
In the end, you have to adapt to your situation and play to your strengths. Turns out that like almost everything in life worth pondering over, there's isn't a single solution that works best for all, all of the time.
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Agreed. It's amazing that these posts keep going over the same discussion. Nobody with any intelligence should ever say that academia is the best job. There is no best job!
It's all about finding the right fit for your needs/skills/interests, of course conditional on available options. The rest is just talking past each other.