Oh, you want to talk about Norway?
Guess which group has caused more deaths from terrorism in Norway in recent years? Go ahead -- guess.
It seems that we are talking about terrorist acts by Muslim migrants in the west.
That said, it is a bit unclear what you mean by 'recent years'. Is 10 years ago recent? If yes, then it's right-wing, if no, then it's Muslim migrant.
By the way, did you manage to find their dataset?
Oh, you want to talk about Norway?
Guess which group has caused more deaths from terrorism in Norway in recent years? Go ahead -- guess.It seems that we are talking about terrorist acts by Muslim migrants in the west.
That said, it is a bit unclear what you mean by 'recent years'. Is 10 years ago recent? If yes, then it's right-wing, if no, then it's Muslim migrant.
By the way, did you manage to find their dataset?
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Yes, if by the past 10 years you mean the past 11 years.
However, it would appear we are discussing Muslim migrants in the west rather than in the US or Norway specifically. So it bears mentioning that far, far more Brits, Frenchmen, Belgians, Spaniards were k111ed by Muslim migrants than by right-wing locals. This is quite staggering. Most people are against immigration, so there would be something like at least 25-30m broadly right-wing locals in France with 10m explicitly voting for Le Pen. Yet they k111 way fewer people than a paltry 3m Muslim immigrants.
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Yes, if by the past 10 years you mean the past 11 years.
However, it would appear we are discussing Muslim migrants in the west rather than in the US or Norway specifically. So it bears mentioning that far, far more Brits, Frenchmen, Belgians, Spaniards were k111ed by Muslim migrants than by right-wing locals. This is quite staggering. Most people are against immigration, so there would be something like at least 25-30m broadly right-wing locals in France with 10m explicitly voting for Le Pen. Yet they k111 way fewer people than a paltry 3m Muslim immigrants.
That's weird -- I could have sworn from the title that we were discussing terrorism in Norway.
Most of which, as we both agree, has been caused by domestic right wingers.
That's weird -- I could have sworn from the title that we were discussing terrorism in Norway.
Most of which, as we both agree, has been caused by domestic right wingers.
Makes it all the more puzzling why people started discussing the US specifically.
Sorry, Muslim terrorism is generally discussed in the context of Muslim migration to the West. You can try fudging the data by picking only the US after 9/11, only Norway in the last 11 years, only counting incidents rather than death tolls, collapsing eeencel school shooters into right wing terrorists, and so on. But it looks like you are obviously trying to manipulate data.
The better approach is to say that even though it is pretty scary in the same way a serial k111er is scary, it's just not a big phenomenon. Sure, Muslim terrorists k111ed 100 people per year for a few years in France. But over 3000 per year die on the roads. It would be more sensible to try to reduce car use and such than stress over a tiny fraction of preventable deaths.
Define "terrorist incident." AKA: drunk guys talking in a Michigan bar.
Here is analysis from CSIS, using something PSR righties might be unfamilar with: actual data.
"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.
See for yourself:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-statesDidn't check the link, I see:
"This analysis focuses on terrorism: the deliberate use—or threat—of violence by non-state actors in order to achieve political goals and create a broad psychological impact.4 Violence—and the threat of violence—are important components of terrorism. Overall, this analysis divides terrorism into four broad categories: right-wing, left-wing, religious, and ethnonationalist.5 "
what's the difference between right-wing and ethnonationalist. Are the peaceful Blk Lyies Mub rio...I mean protests left-wing, right-wing, or ethnonationalist?
Somehow preventable threats from imported foreigners seem worse than domestic threats from dissatisfied legacy citizens.
Hmm, I wonder which of these groups is responsible for more acts of violence?
(Also, are there "foreigners" are not "imported"?)
so you went to violence from terrorism? ok, checks out.
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Yes, if by the past 10 years you mean the past 11 years.
However, it would appear we are discussing Muslim migrants in the west rather than in the US or Norway specifically. So it bears mentioning that far, far more Brits, Frenchmen, Belgians, Spaniards were k111ed by Muslim migrants than by right-wing locals. This is quite staggering. Most people are against immigration, so there would be something like at least 25-30m broadly right-wing locals in France with 10m explicitly voting for Le Pen. Yet they k111 way fewer people than a paltry 3m Muslim immigrants.
assuming for the sake of argument that most people are anti-immigrant (dubious), anti-immigration is not by definition right-wing. labor activists and politicians of various shapes have long history of wanting to limit immigration to protect jobs and wages and social security. About 15 years ago before the 12 country expansion of the EU, the social democratic swedish prime minister argued that sweden, like a few other EU countries, should have immigration restrictions for citizens from new members countries. Otherwise sweden would be flooded by ”social tourists” reaping social benefits.
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Yes, if by the past 10 years you mean the past 11 years.
However, it would appear we are discussing Muslim migrants in the west rather than in the US or Norway specifically. So it bears mentioning that far, far more Brits, Frenchmen, Belgians, Spaniards were k111ed by Muslim migrants than by right-wing locals. This is quite staggering. Most people are against immigration, so there would be something like at least 25-30m broadly right-wing locals in France with 10m explicitly voting for Le Pen. Yet they k111 way fewer people than a paltry 3m Muslim immigrants.assuming for the sake of argument that most people are anti-immigrant (dubious), anti-immigration is not by definition right-wing. labor activists and politicians of various shapes have long history of wanting to limit immigration to protect jobs and wages and social security. About 15 years ago before the 12 country expansion of the EU, the social democratic swedish prime minister argued that sweden, like a few other EU countries, should have immigration restrictions for citizens from new members countries. Otherwise sweden would be flooded by ”social tourists” reaping social benefits.
The Twyla Show, ladies and gentlemen. She'll be here all week.
Just to clear this up, we agree that in the past 10 years far, far more Norwegians have been ki/lled by right wing terrorists than by Muslims, correct?
Yes, if by the past 10 years you mean the past 11 years.
However, it would appear we are discussing Muslim migrants in the west rather than in the US or Norway specifically. So it bears mentioning that far, far more Brits, Frenchmen, Belgians, Spaniards were k111ed by Muslim migrants than by right-wing locals. This is quite staggering. Most people are against immigration, so there would be something like at least 25-30m broadly right-wing locals in France with 10m explicitly voting for Le Pen. Yet they k111 way fewer people than a paltry 3m Muslim immigrants.
assuming for the sake of argument that most people are anti-immigrant (dubious), anti-immigration is not by definition right-wing. labor activists and politicians of various shapes have long history of wanting to limit immigration to protect jobs and wages and social security. About 15 years ago before the 12 country expansion of the EU, the social democratic swedish prime minister argued that sweden, like a few other EU countries, should have immigration restrictions for citizens from new members countries. Otherwise sweden would be flooded by ”social tourists” reaping social benefits.The Twyla Show, ladies and gentlemen. She'll be here all week.
Twyla makes more sense than most in this thread. Unlike everyone can hold two thoughts in head at the same time.
That particular posts is spot on. Please try to make a meaningful contribution and coherently explain why you so strongly feel otherwise.
CSIS's definition reads like a BA thesis
"First, right-wing terrorism refers to the use or threat of violence by sub-national or non-state entities whose goals may include racial or ethnic sprmcy; opposition to government authority; anger at women, including from the in[cel]... movement; and outrage against certain policies, such as abortion.6 This analysis uses the term “right-wing terrorism” rather than “racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism,” or REMVE, which is used by some in the U.S. government.7 Second, left-wing terrorism involves the use or threat of violence by sub-national or non-state entities that oppose capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism; pursue environmental or animal rights issues; espouse pro-communist or pro-socialist beliefs; or support a decentralized social and political system such as anarchism....Fourth, ethnonationalist terrorism refers to violence in support of ethnic or nationalist goals—often struggles of self-determination and separatism along ethnic or nationalist lines."
Opposition to government authority can come from any political orientation. BLM ritos qualifies as do the 100s and 100s of bombings in 70s by left radicalss.
"anger at women, including from the in[]cel movement". leaves me speechless.
"outrage against certain policies, such as abo][rtion." What? So left terrorism cannot be born out of such outrage against policies?
all of the components of left terrorism can be subsumed under the components listed for right terrorism. enormous difference in abstraction between right and left. right includes outrage against certain policies and anger at women, no similar components are defined for left. Components of left are such narrow things as capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism.
question about what's the difference between right and ethnonationalist is more apt than could ever be imagined. The former includes racial or ethnic sup][remacy and latter ethnic or nationalist goals. They are conceptually indistinguishable, the former is subset of the latter.
assuming for the sake of argument that most people are anti-immigrant (dubious), anti-immigration is not by definition right-wing. labor activists and politicians of various shapes have long history of wanting to limit immigration to protect jobs and wages and social security. About 15 years ago before the 12 country expansion of the EU, the social democratic swedish prime minister argued that sweden, like a few other EU countries, should have immigration restrictions for citizens from new members countries. Otherwise sweden would be flooded by ”social tourists” reaping social benefits.
Most people in Europe are anti-immigrant, according to polls: https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1110095736836898816
By current standards, the immigration views of the social-democratic PM of Sweden in the 1980s would be right-wing. It is no secret that the old views of social-democrats are now considered right-wing or even far-right because these parties moved very far to the left on ethnicity. One of the biggest anti-immigrant figures in Germany is an ex-SPD guy (Thilo Sarrazin). In the past, Democrats were about as anti-immigrant as Republicans: https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/samuels-immigration-0325-2.png
Being motivated by anti-immigrant sentiment when committing a terrorist act would clearly qualify you as a right-wing terrorist. Why then would such sentiment in the absence of a terrorist act not qualify you as right-wing non-terrorist? BTW, a lot of such people don't vote at all.
