^no kidding...what was that like? How long did it last?
Tenure Clock Extensions due to Coronvirus, Covid 19?
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^no kidding...what was that like? How long did it last?
Yup.
What I recall: there was a system-wide furloughs for all (TT, tenured, administrators, etc.). Based on your salary, your furlough would be anything from 4% to 10% (or so, I forget the exact %s). In my case I think it was about 6-7%.
What it meant, in practice, was a pay cut with no associated reduction in work. Some staff would actually stay home on days furloughed. But for us faculty, it didn't mean much: you came to campus or stayed home no matter what, so we just kept plugging along.
How long did it last? Gosh I can't remember -- one academic year? 6 months? Something like that.
What we saw at the same time, too, was that after about two decades of not contributing to our pension fund (i.e., it was all employer contributions), mandatory contributions started again. So you felt it at both ends: lower salary AND larger contributions. It was tough.
And I know that other state systems had similar measures enacted. State funding in 2008-2009 dropped suddenly -- and therefore state institutions like UCs, CSUs, etc. enacted such drastic measures.
Don't think for a second that you're safe unless you're at a "lower tier LAC". You're not. When the stock market takes a hit and state budgets are decimated due to a loss of tax revenue brought upon by recession and high unemployment, there aren't many of us who are safe. At least we're not losing our jobs -- yet. I can't imagine how it would be as a tenured professor with unemployment at 20%. At that point all bets are off regarding job safety.
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if you feel you are getting fair review this year by reviewers, journals and letter writers, you are dreaming.
Honest question: Why wouldn't people get fair reviews this year?Exactly. If anything people will get more favorable reviews.
I could see it going either way. Some peo
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If we have reached a point where tenured profs at state schools are being laid off, that will be a sign that things have gotten very, very, very bad.
^no kidding...what was that like? How long did it last?
Yup.
What I recall: there was a system-wide furloughs for all (TT, tenured, administrators, etc.). Based on your salary, your furlough would be anything from 4% to 10% (or so, I forget the exact %s). In my case I think it was about 6-7%.
What it meant, in practice, was a pay cut with no associated reduction in work. Some staff would actually stay home on days furloughed. But for us faculty, it didn't mean much: you came to campus or stayed home no matter what, so we just kept plugging along.
How long did it last? Gosh I can't remember -- one academic year? 6 months? Something like that.
What we saw at the same time, too, was that after about two decades of not contributing to our pension fund (i.e., it was all employer contributions), mandatory contributions started again. So you felt it at both ends: lower salary AND larger contributions. It was tough.
And I know that other state systems had similar measures enacted. State funding in 2008-2009 dropped suddenly -- and therefore state institutions like UCs, CSUs, etc. enacted such drastic measures.
Don't think for a second that you're safe unless you're at a "lower tier LAC". You're not. When the stock market takes a hit and state budgets are decimated due to a loss of tax revenue brought upon by recession and high unemployment, there aren't many of us who are safe. At least we're not losing our jobs -- yet. I can't imagine how it would be as a tenured professor with unemployment at 20%. At that point all bets are off regarding job safety. -
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship. -
actually especially for those that would have submitted the package soon, the current situation would have been worst. this is crunch time, incl getting to know letter writers, seminars, RRs, forthcomings etc.
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship. -
Forthcoming is regarded as a publication. You get to know letter writers at this stage? Will seminars at this point help you get a publication by July 1? You can make a case for converting RRs, but how can that warrant a one-year extension?
actually especially for those that would have submitted the package soon, the current situation would have been worst. this is crunch time, incl getting to know letter writers, seminars, RRs, forthcomings etc.
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship. -
what about child births in your final year? i think you are applying too detailed a standard. these blanket extensions are meant to be simple and fair solutions to a hugely disruptive situation.
Forthcoming is regarded as a publication. You get to know letter writers at this stage? Will seminars at this point help you get a publication by July 1? You can make a case for converting RRs, but how can that warrant a one-year extension?
actually especially for those that would have submitted the package soon, the current situation would have been worst. this is crunch time, incl getting to know letter writers, seminars, RRs, forthcomings etc.
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship. -
Yeah, I mean, the prospect of you taking a 5% furlough paycut is so much worse than the hundreds--if not thousands--of people on the job market who will be unemployed in 8 weeks. I feel for you.
But think of the poor Texas A&M graduate student who might not find a job.
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Tenured here (Harland from above). So obviously this doesn't apply to me.
However, at many places, you can "update" your file until the final decision is made. So, sure, your letter writers get your file in late spring/early summer. And they won't update their letters.
However, you could have updates (awards, grants, pubs) between now and...
-Fall 2020 when your department votes
-Late fall when your dean gets your file
-Winter when the committee higher up gets your file
-Spring when your provost makes the callSure, if you think one more thing is going to make a difference, then you're probably not in good shape for tenure. But in the ~1 year between now and when your provost makes the call, lots can happen.
And this says nothing of the lower likelihood (assumed, who knows if that's the case) that a potential letter writer will agree. And that information also gets passed along (such that a low % of letter writers agreeing can be seen as a negative).
Again, I'm tenured, I'm not going to be affected either way. But I don't think it's true to say that a one extra year wouldn't affect the ones going up for tenure in the fall.
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship. -
Are you a faculty member? People taking maternity leaves are already given one year extension in most places. If you're giving child births, you should stay home anyway, whether there is covid-19 or not.
what about child births in your final year? i think you are applying too detailed a standard. these blanket extensions are meant to be simple and fair solutions to a hugely disruptive situation.
Forthcoming is regarded as a publication. You get to know letter writers at this stage? Will seminars at this point help you get a publication by July 1? You can make a case for converting RRs, but how can that warrant a one-year extension?
actually especially for those that would have submitted the package soon, the current situation would have been worst. this is crunch time, incl getting to know letter writers, seminars, RRs, forthcomings etc.
Exactly. Especially for those who will be submitting their package soon, I don't see how their existing research record would be affected by Covid-19. You can't start a project now and expect to publish it by July 1. For those who will come up for tenure in the future, a knee-jerk reaction at this time is also not warranted, since we still have time to figure out the appropriate policy. We should guarantee that the hardship will be given due consideration, but I don't see the case for an across-the-board one year extension at this point.
And I don't see how online teaching is making things hard. The first few classes, maybe. But overall, it might be a time saver, particularly because we are not hold to the same teaching quality and requirement as before.
I haven’t heard so at my university yet.
I don’t get across the board extensions. I think you should have to make a case, that is show hardship.